04 February 2009 @ 11:20 am
Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.  
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7868401.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/feb/03/bbc-drops-carol-thatcher

So, Carol Thatcher, white journalist, BBC contributor on the One Show and Woman's Hour and daughter to the one and only Margaret Thatcher, "jokingly" referred to a male tennis player as a golliwog [link, link] in a backstage conversation with Adrian Chiles, white presenter of the One Show.

She was fired from the show after the producers were made aware of her remarks and they gave her a chance to acknowledge and unconditionally apologise for her racist remarks but refused to do so. It took her five days to reply after she was called out for her remarks (the rumour is the Chiles and Brand called her out and then reported her remarks to the producers) and in her letter to the producers, dismissed her remarks as a "joke".

Thatcher's spokeswoman said:

  • it was "meant as a joke".

  • "She made a light aside about this tennis player and his similarity to the golliwog on the jam pot when she was growing up."

  • "Carol never intended any racist comment." "There's no way, obviously, that she would condone any racist comment - we would refute that entirely. It would not be in her nature to do anything like that.

  • "Carol is mortified that anyone should take offence at a silly joke. She has summarily apologised."

  • "It is disgusting that we've had a leak of private conversations in the green room - the BBC has more leaks than Thames Water."

  • [their] client was angry at how the remark had been leaked to the media and that Thatcher wanted an apology from the BBC.

  • "Carol has been an incredibly loyal servant to The One Show and they have paid her back very shabbily."

  • Her friends, the Times reports, she had been referring to the player's hairstyle and was not making a racist comment.


Can you see the common defences? After three weeks of intense focus on RaceFail '09, if you have been following, I'm sure you can. Context, appeal to generational differences, intentionality, blaming the listener for being offended, ad hominem attacks, offenders trying to define what is "racist" or not, derailing the issue, an attempt to deracialise the conversation by attacking the BBC instead of dealing with Thatcher's remarks, misrepresenting what is "private" and "public" space, wanting an apology for how she was treated, oddly worded "servant" callback.

One of the things to note is the marked absence of the tone/civility/niceness attacks and any remarks on education or intellectualism; the two people who called her on her remarks, and the powers behind them, are white. In fact, there is a marked lack of doubt and language that indicates doubt and emotion ("alleged" etc) in the various articles making the rounds. White people are the authority and their words are accepted as fact, Chiles and Brand's words, actions, motives and character have been not attacked. I don't have to wonder very hard if and how things might have been different if someone non-white had called Thatcher on her racist words. I've seen it, I've lived it, I've read it in the last three weeks during RaceFail '09. I think it may be getting incrementally better but it's like an iceberg, I just can't tell how fast it's moving.

In various online articles, comments are already talking about the BBC being too PC and how their mixed race children LOVE golliwogs and my god, what is this country coming to when (whites) can't even make (racist) jokes (without having to consider ethnics) blahblahblah. This country I live in, it is not a "post-racial" country because we gave up slaves a hundred years before America did, no matter however many white Britons try to claim it is. I live in a city whose citizens voted in a man who called black people in the Commonwealth "pickaninnies" as mayor, as if the existence of the commonwealth and the history behind it wasn't shame enough. I live in a city where the second highest ranked police officer was immediately suspended after he reported incidents of racism against him. I work and pay taxes so that the royal family, grandpa and grandchildren alike, can joyride in helicopters and call non-white people by racist epithets on my money. I walk around on the street and strange white men still feel entited to grab me by the arm and croon, me love you long time, people still feel okay to call me chink. I live in a country where politicians, whose party members get away with saying racist things without any real life repercussions, blame black men for systemic governmental failure to care for our youth. I live in a country where polls show that number one concern for people is immigration, even though statistical evidence shows that immigration and immigrants and asylum seekers have little effect on the economy or housing.

The BBC is paid for by licence fee payers, it has a responsibility to its customers and to the general public. Thatcher's remarks and then her refusal to acknowledge and apologise for her racist words violate the BBC's remit. I am fiercely glad that the BBC has acted so quickly and I am glad, as a paying customer, the producer of the One show has made an unequivocal apology. I hope that none of the other programmes will use her as a contributor until she makes an unconditional acknowledgement and apology to the licence fee payers who pay her salary. If reasoning doesn't work, if dialogue doesn't work, if all the avenues have been exhausted and they still don't work, they yes, economic pressure should be put on her. And I'm glad that the BBC have taken this course of action.

Reading many of the defences I've seen during RaceFail '09, it has been hard for me to be sympathetic to those who still defend the extent of narcissistic, aggressive deracilisation of the conversation, the endless double standards, ad hominem attacks, sophistry and the differing racially offensive, dehumanising statements and racist, misogynistic epithets that have been thrown, that so many white people feel *entitled* to throw, at PoC without regret or even awareness of the privilege that they can do this without any real repercussions. Hard for me to be sympathetic to what is going through people's minds when they ask PoC to privilege white people's racially problematic emotional reactions and feelings above all else, that anyone could have the gall to berate PoC/allies for not privileging white people's emotional reactions above all else. How anyone could have to gall to accuse PoC/allies of trolling because we refuse to perpetuate white privilege and tell us off for our perceived "tone", to distort and twist and try to justify their actions so much they would go so far as to put words like "race traitor" in PoC's mouths and accuse them of being racist against PoC writers. Hard for me to understand how someone could defend someone who bans polite dissent but continues to allow an outed racist troll to leave racist and misogynistic slurs in their journal.

I say I am not very sympathetic but I have sat down and wondered what I would choose to do if this specific thing in this specific instance were not just about my online life but also in my immediate social circle or my professional scope. I've wondered about what I would choose to do and how I would act if this specific instance were directly related my social status among my immediate friends or colleagues or potentially influenced my work or a raise in a professional setting. I love my job. I wonder if I would be willing to compromise what I believed was right and what I believed about myself enough to try hold on to that status; would I be able to rely on myself and the people around me to do the right thing, the righteous thing instead of the easy thing? Was I right to call those people out those times and should I have dropped it in the first place or taken it to someone higher up? Do I have enough faith in myself to do what is right, to take the risk? Do I have enough faith in where *I* have chosen to work, the friends I have chosen to make, the people I have chosen to work for to listen to me, to try do the right thing, even when I've had bad experiences in similar situations before? Do they have trust in me? Do they respect and value *me*, my work, my knowledge, my opinions, my experiences, my voice? Am I in the right place for me?

Today, I don't have to wonder so much.

***

p.s. the first person who brings up PoC "feelings/emotional/personal experience" reaction vs. white "intellectual/academic deconstruction" in my journal is going to get pwned with Postcolonialism, Critical Race Theory, Critical White Studies, Social Criticism and postpositivist critique, historic, social, economic, cultural, psychological, linguistic, scientific academic research into the effects of first wave imperialism, second wave imperialism, new imperialism, colonialism and neocolonialism and studies into colonial mentality, cultural identity, cultural alienation, cross cultural competence, cultural cringe, dispora culture, ethnoconvergence, intersectionality, Edward Saïd, Aimé Fernand David Césaire, Frantz Fanon, Gayatri Chakravorty Spivak, scholars like Cheikh Anta Diop, Molefi Kete Asante, Lewis Gordon, W. E. B. Du Bois, Nigel Gibson, Partha Chatterjee and the Subaltern Studies Group, Albert Memmi, Ashis Nandy, Hamid Dabash, Homi Bhabha, Ngũgĩ wa Thiong'o, Walter Mignolo and Ernesto Guevara, who was so much more than just a face printed on t-shirts of white college kids trying to look cool. So, you know, don't.
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Wychwood: due South - RayV and Diefwychwood on February 4th, 2009 11:53 am (UTC)
Wow, that's whole new levels of public fail right there. I mean - I was pretty shocked by the actions of some of the more, um, public figures? In the current round of RaceFail, but to go through the same stupid attempted-self-justification routine in the national media is a whole extra level of idiocy on top. The only good thing about it is, as you say, that the BBC gave her a proper smackdown - and that Chiles et al called her on what she said.

(Hi! I'd been meaning to friend you for a while because of your interesting posts (so interesting) and your beautiful icons (so beautiful) and your fandom squee (so sga) and... here I am?)
you have the boldness of a much younger woman: what the world needs nowciderpress on February 4th, 2009 02:46 pm (UTC)
I actually don't think it's a whole extra level of idiocy; I think it's what white people do when they're called on and it doesn't matter what . I've seen people react this badly in a one-to-one setting, in a group setting, online, offline, nationally. It's a pattern of behaviour that's *acceptable* because ultimately, the majority think it's okay to treat non-white people like this, women like this, gay people like this, trans people like this and they're shocked, just *shocked* that anyone would challenge the status quo.

It's sad that we have to celebrate someone actually doing what's right (HAH!) but yes, I'm glad that the BBC acted speedily on this. :>

Also, hi!
(no subject) - wychwood on February 4th, 2009 02:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - skywardprodigal on February 4th, 2009 05:08 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - jonquil on February 4th, 2009 08:14 pm (UTC) (Expand)
buddleia: SRSLYbuddleia on February 4th, 2009 12:19 pm (UTC)
Hon, if I didn't already love you, your ps would have made me.
rydra_wongrydra_wong on February 4th, 2009 01:49 pm (UTC)
This!
(no subject) - ciderpress on February 4th, 2009 02:52 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ciderpress on February 4th, 2009 02:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - buddleia on February 4th, 2009 03:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ciderpress on February 4th, 2009 03:24 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ithiliana on February 4th, 2009 06:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
moondancerdrakemoondancerdrake on February 4th, 2009 12:31 pm (UTC)
The weakest apologies are one like this one. She’s basically saying “I’m sorry you people took what I said wrong”….”I’m sorry you people can’t take as joke”… when what she should be saying is “I’m sorry my words offended someone” or I’m sorry for what I said” In general I think the BBC handle these things well, and they certainly are doing so now. I think those same sort of comment, making the person offended at fault for taking something as offensive rather than the person in question taking responsibility on themselves for what they said is a huge part of the recent fail fest.
you have the boldness of a much younger womanciderpress on February 4th, 2009 02:56 pm (UTC)
Yes, the "I'm sorry you can't take a joke and super oversensitive" tack is so very special. Especially if you add in a "my special non-white friend told me they were fine with it!"

The only thing I can think to do is resist very hard being the "special non-white friend" whose complicity lets this behaviour seem justifiable. Bleh.
(no subject) - moondancerdrake on February 4th, 2009 03:00 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ciderpress on February 4th, 2009 03:28 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - moondancerdrake on February 4th, 2009 03:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - coffeeandink on February 4th, 2009 03:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - whatistigerbalm on February 12th, 2009 11:50 am (UTC) (Expand)
through a door.throughadoor on February 4th, 2009 12:58 pm (UTC)
Man, everything you've posted in the last couple weeks has been spot-on brilliant, but this is really, really great. For a brief minute, I thought, "if they asshats read this, they'd finally GET why they were being asshats." That's probably too much to hope for, but hope springs eternal, I guess?
you have the boldness of a much younger woman: step into my parlour said the spiderciderpress on February 4th, 2009 02:57 pm (UTC)
Thanks! Hope spring eternal, drop by drop. :)

As my friend just said to me on the phone, would you believe she's the *good* Thatcher twin? She just insulted non-white people, her brother tried to steal a whole country of non-white people. Heh.
mfthe_emef on February 4th, 2009 01:28 pm (UTC)
is going to get pwned with Postcolonialism, Critical Race Theory, Critical White Studies, Social Criticism and postpositivist critique, historic, social, economic, cultural, psychological, linguistic, scientific academic research into the effects of first wave imperialism, second wave imperialism, new imperialism, colonialism and neocolonialism and studies into colonial mentality, cultural identity, cultural alienation, cross cultural competence, cultural cringe, dispora culture, ethnoconvergence, intersectionality, Edward Saïd, Aimé Fernand David Césaire, Frantz Fanon, Gayatri Chakravorty Spivak, scholars like Cheikh Anta Diop, Molefi Kete Asante, Lewis Gordon, W. E. B. Du Bois, Nigel Gibson, Partha Chatterjee and the Subaltern Studies Group, Albert Memmi, Ashis Nandy, Hamid Dabash, Homi Bhabha, Ngũgĩ wa Thiong'o, Walter Mignolo and Ernesto Guevara, who was so much more than just someone whose face is printed on a thousand t-shirts of white college kids trying to look cool. So, you know, don't.

Omg, you are my hero.

Re : Carol Thatcher : at least she got fired. Here we're submitted to publicly funded racist humour : http://www.mediaincanada.com/articles/mic/20090107/radiocanada.html

Ugh.
you have the boldness of a much younger womanciderpress on February 4th, 2009 03:01 pm (UTC)
... parody racism.

...

wow. just, wow. Nice to see that the Commonwealth apples don't fall too far from the tree.
shewhohashopeshewhohashope on February 4th, 2009 01:48 pm (UTC)
SIGH.

I'd like to say more, but I'm still out of words.
you have the boldness of a much younger womanciderpress on February 4th, 2009 03:07 pm (UTC)
I have plenty of words, it's just that I don't think any of them would be of use. So many white people aren't swayed by rational arguments or logic in discussions about race. They go some place where words don't reach them. I don't even know what that's like, you know?
(Deleted comment)
you have the boldness of a much younger woman: step into my parlour said the spiderciderpress on February 4th, 2009 03:11 pm (UTC)
I am so relieved that the BBC took this course of action, I'm not sure what I would have done if it had gone the way it had the last three weeks. :)
Aralarallara on February 4th, 2009 02:12 pm (UTC)
First of all, your pre-emptive academic smackdown is making me smile SO HARD.

Second, I reeeeally hope that the white folks who are trying to learn from all this start doing exactly what you've done here. I hope people start taking the arguments that POC have made about how race conversations go in fandom and mapping them onto situations in "the real world" like this. It makes everything so clear! And maybe, just maybe, next time this comes up in fandom a few more people will be able to realize the extent to which POC can predict white people's reactions (because the same shit happens all the time, every day, everywhere--not just in this one instance in fandom) and try not to be so fucking predictable. As throughadoor says, hope springs eternal. *sigh*
you have the boldness of a much younger woman: the stupidest fist names I've ever heardciderpress on February 4th, 2009 03:19 pm (UTC)
People who know very little about the depth and breadth of social sciences/cultural studies and proclaim themselves One True intellectual academics of literature and critical theory just make me feel sad for everyone, dude.

As for the second point, it'll be interesting to see the next race discussion/debate/imbroglio in fandom. This time around has been very long and very intense compared to the others, we'll see what kind of effect it has on white-dominant fandom race discourse. Hope springs eternal and things move like icebergs, we'll see. :)
(Deleted comment)
you have the boldness of a much younger womanciderpress on February 4th, 2009 02:40 pm (UTC)
I put two links in right beside the word golliwog in the post. And there's always google.
(no subject) - carta on February 4th, 2009 07:00 pm (UTC) (Expand)
ciscis on February 4th, 2009 02:44 pm (UTC)
"It is disgusting that we've had a leak of private conversations in the green room - the BBC has more leaks than Thames Water."

i think this was the line that got to me the most. Everything about it sends me blind with rage. It seems to be calling out to some particular moral-majority type group on the eveningstandard/dailymail axis, for whom the thames water comment isn't just a throwaway, it's reminder of a whole set of shared values, shared assumptions. the water companies are ripping us off, political correctness has gone mad, the taxman is taking our money and giving it to benefit cheats, immigrants are stealing honest english jobs, what do we pay the licence fee for if the bbc can't keep good honest private conversations from leaking: perhaps i am paranoid but that whole collection of "common sense" "values" seems to be suggested. How can anyone suggest that Carol Thatcher is a racist when we all know that the BBC is bad (because it fires people, because it doesn't fire people, because it tries to impose its politically-correct agenda on us, because it doesn't reflect proper english values like uh give me a sec i'll think of some, because because let's talk about the bbc and its innumerable failings and not the fact that carol thatcher made a racist comment and is trying to deny that it was racist). You want your feelings-based reaction? Carol Thatcher's spokesperson sure isn't appealing to anyone's intellect. (it's almost as if people defend themselves using whichever false binary will put them on the winning side)

I didn't mean to write all of that: what I meant to say was that this, your linking of the C Thatcher comment to racefail09 (good name!), is perfectly done, and thank you for it.
you have the boldness of a much younger womanciderpress on February 4th, 2009 03:26 pm (UTC)
Thank *you* for this comment. I think you've tapped into "last true minority" (middle class white people) syndrome note perfectly and I'm glad you took the time to put your take on it here. :)
(no subject) - skywardprodigal on February 4th, 2009 06:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
practically the biggest cupcake on this tourtrixiesfic on February 4th, 2009 03:02 pm (UTC)
God, so much fail. But yay for the BBC for getting right in this instance.

And oh my god, yay you for the PS. Have I mentioned this week that I love you? *g*
you have the boldness of a much younger woman: always get both soup and saladciderpress on February 4th, 2009 03:31 pm (UTC)
I am surprised that the failboat hasn't sunk under this great weight, trixie. *g*

ilu, too, bb. <3
intellectual peppery: An eagle with the head of a bear.eleveninches on February 4th, 2009 03:04 pm (UTC)
I don't understand how golliwog can't be taken as anything BUT a racist insult.
you have the boldness of a much younger woman: have you ever used bronzer?ciderpress on February 4th, 2009 03:35 pm (UTC)
You know, there's a whole branch of academic study that specifically does research to try to understand different kinds of white people and how their brains tick in regards to race and culture. I don't think they've figured it out yet. *g*
(no subject) - eleveninches on February 4th, 2009 03:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ciderpress on February 4th, 2009 03:52 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - eleveninches on February 4th, 2009 04:28 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ciderpress on February 4th, 2009 04:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bossymarmalade on February 4th, 2009 04:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - eleveninches on February 4th, 2009 05:10 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bossymarmalade on February 4th, 2009 05:37 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ciderpress on February 4th, 2009 06:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - reileen on February 4th, 2009 07:52 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ciderpress on February 6th, 2009 05:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bossymarmalade on February 4th, 2009 08:06 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vito_excalibur on February 5th, 2009 04:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ciderpress on February 6th, 2009 05:08 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ajollypyruvate on February 13th, 2009 07:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - eleveninches on February 13th, 2009 08:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Catesheafrotherdon on February 4th, 2009 03:17 pm (UTC)
That P.S. was so righteous I just fist-pumped. In my bed :D
you have the boldness of a much younger woman: always get both soup and saladciderpress on February 4th, 2009 04:01 pm (UTC)
Enough is enough, you know? :D
glass_icarusglass_icarus on February 4th, 2009 03:34 pm (UTC)
PS OF GRATE WIN! \o/ even if the rest of that post made me cringe. i'd be more astounded, but after the last three weeks... not so much.
you have the boldness of a much younger woman: love in search of a wordciderpress on February 4th, 2009 04:07 pm (UTC)
I'm glad that this made sense to you. :)
.color_blue on February 4th, 2009 03:52 pm (UTC)
I've wondered about what I would choose to do and how I would act if this specific instance were directly related my social status among my immediate friends or colleagues or potentially influenced my work or a raise in a professional setting. I love my job. I wonder if I would be willing to compromise myself enough to be "safe"; would I be able to rely on myself and the people around me to do the right thing, the righteous thing instead of the easy thing?

*nodsss* I was thinking about this too while following the current racefail. And it's what made me go red - and still does - when TNH chimed in, and all her supporters came out of the woodwork to defend her, claim that she was a professional and didn't and doesn't mean it that way, and really? Because I have seen a lot of nice and professional people make those who call them on their privileges outcasts and pariahs, and am seeing it happen again, and I hate that this is something that I will always have to take into account when I'm deciding whether or not to speak out. Because the speed and vehemence with which PoC can be trivialized and othered is - amazing.

Anyway, I really liked this post, and I'm glad you made it.
you have the boldness of a much younger womanciderpress on February 4th, 2009 04:33 pm (UTC)
Thanks! And thank *you* for your comment. As disheartening as this whole mess has been, it's comforting to know that there are so many smart PoC out there that we resist being silenced, resist the voices that tell us we are silly and oversensitive and alone.
(no subject) - color_blue on February 4th, 2009 04:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
delux_vivens on February 4th, 2009 04:49 pm (UTC)
Postcolonialism, Critical Race Theory, Critical White Studies, Social Criticism and postpositivist critique, historic, social, economic, cultural, psychological, linguistic, scientific academic research into the effects of first wave imperialism, second wave imperialism, new imperialism, colonialism and neocolonialism and studies into colonial mentality, cultural identity, cultural alienation, cross cultural competence, cultural cringe, dispora culture, ethnoconvergence, intersectionality,

I happen to know that you just made *ALL* of that stuff up in this very post.

you have the boldness of a much younger woman: step into my parlour said the spiderciderpress on February 4th, 2009 05:03 pm (UTC)
I don't even remember typing it, it's like the hivemind took control of my body and made me type gibberish. *g*
(no subject) - delux_vivens on February 4th, 2009 05:11 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Synecdochicsynecdochic on February 4th, 2009 05:06 pm (UTC)
Your PS is brilliant.

(PS: So are you.)
you have the boldness of a much younger womanciderpress on February 5th, 2009 09:27 am (UTC)
Hah! Thank you! :>
a princess of now: armed and braingerousskywardprodigal on February 4th, 2009 05:06 pm (UTC)
I love this post I love this post I love this post

Not just for your eloquence, not just for your fire, not just for the books by people I know (of) but for the books by people I know.

You are glorious.
you have the boldness of a much younger womanciderpress on February 5th, 2009 09:29 am (UTC)
Yay, thank you! I was just *tired* of long words that don't actually mean anything when they don't have any true and meaningful knowledge behind them, you know?
the perfect drunken party girl.kickthebeat on February 4th, 2009 05:32 pm (UTC)
SHIT, YOUR PS IS SO BAD ASS. i love it. although you did forget to put in there, '[is going to get pwned with] my foot in its ass -- OR REALLY, MAYBE YOU DIDN'T.
you have the boldness of a much younger woman: always get both soup and saladciderpress on February 5th, 2009 09:30 am (UTC)
OR MAYBE I DID! >:D
Are you bold enough to reach for love?: How white of youyeloson on February 4th, 2009 05:52 pm (UTC)
Privilege is being surprised when there's consequences for your actions.

And like you said, the fact we have to celebrate at the rareness of people doing the right thing.
Me and my +1 at the afterlife: Shenanaginscupcake_goth on February 5th, 2009 12:22 am (UTC)
Privilege is being surprised when there's consequences for your actions.


This is a fantastic comment. I think I want it embroidered on a pillow that I can hit people with.
(no subject) - ciderpress on February 5th, 2009 09:31 am (UTC) (Expand)
Ithiliana: Lurtz and Evil Minionsithiliana on February 4th, 2009 06:46 pm (UTC)
*shares new icon*

Fantastic post--I love the comparison/contrast between the BBC and RaceFail2009, both the similarities and differences (and the ps is to DIE for).

I am also impressed by the BBC: racist commentary by U.S. media types is rarely treated in that swift and clear a fashion.
a princess of nowskywardprodigal on February 4th, 2009 06:58 pm (UTC)
Usually, it's people of color putting a spotlight on it.
(no subject) - ciderpress on February 5th, 2009 09:34 am (UTC) (Expand)
Diana: Anything Interesting Going On? -- Anniebutterfly on February 4th, 2009 06:50 pm (UTC)
I'm so glad that the BBC took immediate action. Good for them.

Fantastic post (and really awesome PS).
you have the boldness of a much younger womanciderpress on February 5th, 2009 09:34 am (UTC)
I'm glad, too. And thanks!
Troubletroubleinchina on February 4th, 2009 06:56 pm (UTC)
"Carol is mortified that anyone should take offence at a silly joke. She has summarily apologised."

The first part of this is such a... pass the buck or something (disingenious?) statement that I'm really appalled.

She's mortified that anyone should take offense? WTF?
PROBE UNIVERSE: atlantis: snake laying a man-trapliviapenn on February 4th, 2009 11:41 pm (UTC)

It's like they think we don't know what words mean!

Now I'm imagining a roomful of writers who are working on writing an apology for Thatcher, only some of them are better than others.

"Carol is sorry..."

"Yes, that's good! Sorry is good!"

"...THAT YOU'RE ALL SO DUMB."

*long pause* "Er..."

"What?"

"That's not actually an *apology*, though, is it? It's more like a further insult, isn't it?"

"Oh, oh, I see what you mean. How about this: Carol is mortified..."

"Yes, good!"

"...MORTIFIED FOR THOSE UNFORTUNATE PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO SENSE OF HUMOR."

"Um, well, there might be just a *slight* problem with that one, too..."

"Really? Gosh, this apology thing is harder than I thought."
(no subject) - ciderpress on February 5th, 2009 09:36 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vito_excalibur on February 5th, 2009 04:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ciderpress on February 5th, 2009 09:35 am (UTC) (Expand)
born a wondersmith: SCC-Ellisonvaradia on February 4th, 2009 07:00 pm (UTC)
Part of me is like 'clearly these parallels will help at least some people get it!'

Part of me thinks I am hopelessly optimistic.

Part of me is just going \o/ about the PS. Because seriously.
you have the boldness of a much younger womanciderpress on February 5th, 2009 09:40 am (UTC)
Yes, seriously, enough was enough.

And there is a part of me that thinks that even if some people don't get it *now*, maybe eventually, when it's not so much to do with pride and their own ego and this obsessive focus on their hurt feelings and defensiveness, then maybe later, some people will come to the understanding what it's like on this side the issue. It's just slow and painful and I'm tired of waiting and watching, that's all.

Edited at 2009-02-05 09:40 am (UTC)
(no subject) - varadia on February 5th, 2009 04:09 pm (UTC) (Expand)
I'm not fluent in your dialect of crazy: ferris wheel - jchalodine on February 4th, 2009 07:03 pm (UTC)
this whole thing is amazingcakes, with awesome sauce - but the PS is a work of art.

you = wonderful, in so damn many ways. *starry eyes*
you have the boldness of a much younger womanciderpress on February 5th, 2009 09:41 am (UTC)
thank you, dine! n'awww, I think you're the bee's knees.
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